Shaw, left, and Golding
In Friday's Gleaner, Audley Shaw, Deputy Leader of the Jamaica Labour Party, warned his party colleagues against challenging the position of Party Leader Edward Seaga at the upcoming Annual Conference, and spoke of his own leadership aspirations. Today we present excerpts of that interview with Mr. Shaw, conducted by Earl Moxam.
EM: Many Jamaicans know the public persona of Audley Shaw, the hound who is constantly sniffing to unearth corruption in government. But from your own perspective, define this man, Audley Shaw.
AS: I really think of myself as someone who is practical, first of all. I think of myself as a pragmatist, and I seek to make that a part of my daily practice, including the way I operate at the constituency level. When I was first elected in 1993 (MP for North East Manchester), I just basically carried out a survey of what the problems were in the constituency and determined that one of the major problems was water. I realised that the short-term solution would have to be found in restoring the many catchment tanks (12) in the constituency, some of which were built way back in the 1930s, but which were still structurally sound.
At that time the Caribbean Development Bank had a programme that the previous JLP Government had started to repair catchment tanks, but which was now inactive. So I went to the National Water Commission; we developed a programme; and the end result is that we restored all of the 12 catchment tanks. Today, over 10 years later, I have at least 15 or 16 functioning catchment tanks in the constituency.
And these tanks have virtually solved major problems in the constituency. Then I heard that the European Union had some money for rural water supply schemes, that there were 10 schemes that would be applicable, but only four would be approved out of that 10. And so I approached the European Union, along with my colleague Member of Parliament at the time, Clifton Stone. And we made a very aggressive pitch seeking to convince them as to why they ought to make sure that the Christiana/Spalding Water Supply System would be a part of the programme. And although it has taken some years in the making it has now been announced that it's about to come on stream. The contract has now been awarded for the design.
EM: Mr. Shaw, you seem to have developed a strong constituency organisation in North East Manchester, so much so that you have been able to hold that seat for the JLP, through good times and bad, since 1993. You speak of your being a practical man. Do you think you are therefore the right man to take that practical approach and organisational strength to the national scene for the JLP?
AS: I don't think you should seek to leapfrog over what you're asked to do, to look for something else. I believe that in politics you have to earn your way up the political ladder, to consideration for leadership. When I was brought on board as General-Secretary I did not indicate that I wanted to be General-Secretary, they requested me to be General-Secretary. When I ran for Deputy Leader, I was asked to be the Deputy Leader.
EM: Oh come now, Mr. Shaw, people don't wait to be asked to be the Leader of a major party in Jamaica!
AS: Well, I have worked in this party; I have sacrificed a lot for this party. I have suffered victimisation, personal humiliation. My business has suffered because of politics. I've suffered at the hands of those who have sought to send out vicious rumours about me, in ways unspeakable! But I've withstood all of that.
I've even suffered through the times when others split off from the Labour Party and went elsewhere and said why didn't he come. I was accused of having a weak spine, but I stayed. I was accused of even being loyal to Edward Seaga and the JLP. Fine! I've responded that I am an organisation man who sticks to principles and to what a party stands for. The fact is that when the issue of the leadership of this party arises, if a timetable is set by the Party Leader and he decides that, after so many years of hard, dedicated and illustrious service to the party and the country, that he's prepared to move on, then I will carry out my own due diligence.
I will consult with the delegates of the party, and if a significant portion of the delegates of the JLP say to me, we would like you to put your hat in the ring, then I will give it serious consideration.
EM: Are you really serious about that approach?
AS: My decision is not going to be guided by some of the malicious stuff that I see written from time to time in the press by those who have their own selfish interests; by those who criticise me when I was among those who held on to keep this Jamaica Labour Party together. And when the time comes I will ask the question of the delegates: Do you want me to consider running for the Leadership of the Party? And I will await the verdict of the delegates of the Jamaica Labour Party. That will be the basis of my decision; not some relentless pursuit of a personal ambition to achieve power.
EM: The party has been divided, for convenience of analysis, into two camps, the reformists and the traditionalists. And you have been planted firmly in the camp of the traditionalists. How do you respond to that?
AS: Apart from a campaign slogan, this so-called division between traditionalists and reformists is utter rubbish! Utter rubbish! If you ask one of the so-called reformists right now what are the reformist strategies, they probably will be stuck and can't answer you. If you want to talk about reform, you look in the Jamaican Labour Party at the creative policies that have been put forward.
Look at the manifesto of 2002. It is by far the most comprehensive and detailed manifesto that has been published in the history of politics in Jamaica. It deals with reforming the education system; it deals comprehensively with your health care system; with tax reform. You look at economic reconstruction to attract investment, to target new industries. You want to talk about reform? They are there in constitutional arrangements that have been proposed by the JLP and by Mr. Seaga. So I say to the so-called reformists within our party, go and read and absorb and learn about the Jamaica Labour Party! The blueprint for the future is already laid down within the annals of the Labour Party. Even the PNP is quietly picking off some of our programmes without giving us credit for it!
EM: Are you confident that there are enough delegates in the party who see you as being a credible enough leader to support you for the ultimate position in the party?
AS: Well, I think maybe that's a question best put to the delegates. I don't like to blow my own horns, but the polls, even by our most severe critics, now indicate that there's a pretty healthy respect for me, nationally.
EM: While that may be so, nationally, what about within the party?
AS: Well, I think, nationally I am in double-digits in the polls, and I would think that the perception would be much stronger within the party.
EM: Do you see Bruce Golding as a rival?
AS: Only in a hypothetical sense, since I have not declared that I am running.
EM: How do the two of you get on?
AS: Very well. I have quite a bit of respect for Mr. Golding. I think he has a fine mind and I think that he has a good contribution to make to nation building and is an asset to the party and the country.
EM: But you nevertheless think you are the right man to lead the party after Mr. Seaga retires?
AS: Well, you know, Earl, I prefer to abide by the judgement of the people. But I really feel that over time people must be judged by their willingness to be measured in their responses. I think that I have been measured in my responses; I have been conservative where I have to be; loyal and faithful where I have to be.
I have resisted the temptation to run off on excursions. I have sought to stay, keep my shoulders to the wheel and keep the party together. I have been part of the mainframe of keeping the Labour Party stable and keeping it to the point where it is the kind of institution where it is today, despite the problems we might have now. It certainly is a stronger party than it was five years ago.
And I take some pride in the fact that I have demonstrated the kind of intellectual fortitude that is required of leadership, to stick with issues, theme, objectives and visions. And even in the darkest hour I have sought to do that. Because I believe that Jamaica has its brightest days ahead of it. The problem is not with the people of Jamaica.
It is largely one of leadership and that's the challenge that faces all of us, myself, Mr. Golding, Mr. Charles, Mr. Henry, all of us. The future has got to be, not about some Messiah coming to lead. The future has got to be about consensus leadership, where we abide by mutual respect. We respect the intellect and strength of one and other. And I think the challenge, certainly in the Labour Party, will be to find a unifier, one who can, almost in an unassuming way, grab a hold of all the disparate strengths and weaknesses. Those who call themselves reformists, fine, we are not attacking them. But they also must not attack those of us who held on and kept things together. I believe the challenge of the future of the Labour Party will be that ability to unify and galvanise, to synthesise and create one great missionary zeal, in which we are all going in one direction, to build a better Jamaica.
EM: There is a school of thought in the JLP that if the party is going to retool and get itself ready to take the reins of government at the next general election, it should change its Leader sooner rather than later, and that Mr. Seaga, if he does not opt to go before the upcoming Annual Conference of the party, should be challenged at the Conference for the Leadership. Would you consider mounting such a challenge?
AS: Let me make my position absolutely clear on that point. Mr. Seaga has served this party and this country in an exceptional way over the years almost 45 years in Parliament, and just over 30 years as the leader of the party. And my own view is that we have a duty and obligation to respect Mr. Seaga, his leadership and his wisdom to decide when is the right time for him to leave.
And I'm absolutely opposed to any move to seek to challenge our party leader at this time. My view is that he must not be challenged; my view is that our party leader must be given the time and space to make the decision which he believes is in the best interest of the party, and which he believes will allow for the smoothest transition to new leadership. I believe that a challenge of the party leader would be wrong! I believe it would cause untold upheaval within the JLP.
It would create further disunity, further dissension, which would lead to a further eroding of the strength that we have built up steadily over the past number of years. It would be a retrograde threat and my position is absolute in saying I would not support it. And those who are contemplating it, I would suggest that they back off! Because it will not be good for the JLP and it will not be good for democracy in Jamaica, and what it will do is to plunge this party into a situation where it will severely compromise our ability to win the next general election.
EM: Do you anticipate that Mr. Seaga may, in fact, lead the party into the next election?
AS: I don't want to speculate on that subject. I think that is a subject that is best left to the wisdom of our party leader.
EM: Do you think that the label attached to you by your parliamentary nemesis, Danny Buchanan, that of being Mr. Seaga's water boy, has hurt you at all?
AS: No. I don't think so at all. To be called a water boy, if that is the price of loyalty, so be it! But what I do know is that in order to be a good leader you must demonstrate the capacity of being loyal. You can't demand loyalty and faithfulness unless you yourself are prepared to offer it.
EM: In recent times you have suffered in public, as far as your own personal finances and business are concerned. Fair game? How do you respond?
AS: Well, I respond to that simply to say that I'm prepared, when the attacks come, to deal with them. One thing that cannot be said about me is that I'm corrupt. There are those who have sought to compare my misfortunes at a personal level with the problems that ministers of government have had from time to time. But there's no comparison!
First of all, there's no issue of any illegal activity being carried out by me. Secondly, there's no issue of the use of government funds. My duty in politics is to be a watchdog on the use of public funds. And I think it would be grossly dishonest of those who would seek to mix my misfortune in business with the outright and rampant corruption in government.
It is dishonest, intellectually and otherwise, for anyone to seek to commingle the two! My own misfortune in business will serve to build my own character and capacity to represent people better, because I understand the difficulties of doing business in a hostile environment where interest rates have hovered in the area of 50 per cent, when the rest of the world and our region in the Caribbean have been less than 10 per cent. And it takes a businessman, someone who has been through the fire of trying to survive in business in Jamaica to perhaps one day lead us to a brighter future, to greener pastures!
